PVP OFF/LOCK DOWN

OK the corp wallet is at 100 Mil.

We have not seen any major contributions over the last 2-3 weeks to the corp wallet. I know RW has called a corp meeting but effective immedately all corp PVP is off or canceled. This will remain in effect until some corp wallet isk goals are met.

Quick review of the last few weeks....

2 weeks ago Corp wallet was at 250 mil it held steady around there until last weekend when our fleet was killed. At that point we repayed the alliance for a couple of cruisers.

The corp bought 3 POS mods total spent 120 mil

the corp payed for skill books for members total spent 20 mil

Recon One owes corp 2 mil

corp has a private debt to someone for 750 Mil. (alliance bill was payed and we owe it back)

Corp assets currently total around 500 mil. The issue here these assets can NOT be changed into isk as they are either POS or POS related items for the most part. The corp does have around 15 mil in minerals.


I know it seems like there is a lot in POS stuff. These are all things that have to be built up in prep for 0.0 and other advanced operations. I will be putting out a seperate report on roughly waht we need for the POS network. What I put up will be the LOW end of what we need for pos work and capital ship prep work.

Recon One
4th CAV CEO

If you want my opinion; this is completely contrary to what your trying to achieve. You don't get donations, and activity by cancelling the more entertaining aspects of corp gatherings. If the corp only gathers to work (and mining of all things at that!) then people will generally just avoid ops like the plague. With a paramount established goal of moving to 0.0, and a player base which is largely unselfsufficent, untrained, and very new. The last thing you want to do is issue a global cancellation of pvp ops. When do you intend to train and drill the teamwork and tactics? When you get to 0.0?

This frustrates me to no end. Why did we buy a POS already? Is it intending to go up soon or is it going to sit in prep? *Why is there such a emphasis on paying off T1 cruisers members fly?* Why are we doing only live drills vs random low sec/ 0.0 instead of making use of both alliance and corp assets for non fatal training? Its increasingly hard to stay motovated and get behind the corp when the strategy seems so self defeating. Your going to need to defend 0.0 when you get there the time to train is now not later. A handful of dreads or carriers is a poor insurance program.

Look any player 5-6 months into the game should be self sufficent(.) An if they are not then that should be thier focus above all else. People that can't maintain a regular income or afford roughly 5-6M a week in acceptable losses have no business joining a pvp fleet. Paying for them to do so is an effort in futility as you only enable them to live off corp assets and get by using skills set incompatible with what your trying to accomplish. Its self defeating. Your paying out of the whole to train people who are essentally not ready to learn that aspect yet. An those who are ready and capable should be able to afford the losses. I don't understand why there is such a emphasis on this. Its like the whole corp is on welfare and (suprise!) its going bankrupt. There are other options for people to learn that don't involve throwing cruiser swarms at experienced pvp fleets.

I'm sorry but I really couldn't disagree more with this entire statement.

Okay dude...where have you been? First off, the pvp hold is temporary until we could get people together for a meeting.
Second, our members ARE self sufficient.
Third, what was the last op YOU were on? We haven't had a purely frig op in quite a while now. We've had battleships and battle cruisers out for the last couple ops. Michal set up an op on the test server, for basically free training. People who showed up learned a good bit about setting up ships, for free!
We're buying POS's now and building up the corp wallet now so when we GO to 0.0, we can (shock!) put up POS's and buy fuel without having to beg our members for a chunk of change.
And yanno...obviously we don't FORCE people to show up for meetings or ops, or many people would have been kicked long ago.
I suggest joining the alliance forums, since most of our pvp ops are alliance wide now.

you cant offer all "fun" ops without putting some ops in place to help build up the corp. It is the nature of eve that you have to do a lot of stuff to make the isk if you want to go pvp for fun.

corp welfare is not what its about and tbh its a good thing too because atm the corp is having issues meeting basic obilgations. which was one of the subjects of the meeting... people werent showing up to ANY of the corp isk making ops leaving us loosing money and not getting any in.

some folks can't afford pvp at the levels 0.0 sees fighting.. t2 ships arent cheap and 4-5 mil per day is with them making isk NOT pvping. Every day we go pvp is one people aren't making isk. The corp needs to be able to provide ships for protracted wars or you lose guys who HAVE to pull out and go make isk. You NEED that ability tp project and sustain forward fighting power. That means logistics. That means having the POS and materials to drop a POS on ZERO warning any where. Those POS have to be on standby and its an alliance internal goal we are working to meet.

Overall attend ops and meeting it helps everyone get ont he same page as far as why pvp get locked off type things...

0.0 IS work to hold and anyone who thinks otherwise has never fueled a POS or dropped a outpost.

Well yes I haven't been on much lately. Coarse I had my reasons, as doubtless many have. Even still I'd love to see a basic outline of what the plan is here. Your right I've never setup an outpost, but I've killed plenty of POS's... w/o an active defense they are little more then egg timers. An fueling will be very interesting indeed.

Ok, well anyone can gripe about crap. Your short money? Well here's 100M. I can afford more on occasion but I damn well won't feel inclined unless I share your goals with how to spend it. I'm not asking for any voting power just insight into whatever the plan will be. So far everything appears almost random from my point of view.

CCC

While I don't necessarily share Node's view of helping only if I share your goal, Recon, I do feel that a general outline would certainly alleviate any wonderings we might have. I do realize that things are honest day to day, and last minute developments are more often than not. However, even if something didn't work out the way we may want it to, it still nevertheless show that there are progress at work here. I do realize it's hard work managing an alliance, but I would sincerely like to request, even if it's just a line or two, or what's happening with the alliance on a weekly basis.

I am still in shock. I don't think I've ever heard an FC say anything remotely supportive of miners or mining ops. :-)

No worries. A DAILY update on corp status/activities would be nice, but I have no problem with how things are progressing/not progressing. Finding a new home for a corp or an alliance is a pain in the rear. part science, part negotiation, part dumb luck. But nothing happens if we don't have ISK. Let's mine! lol.

Yeah I make no apologies for my total lack of enthuasium for mining. Its not like I haven't attempted to try mining. My alt FYI is actually a level 5 exhumer currently finishing the rorq tree. My intentions have always been to sell that character as he's never proven more then remotely interesting or slightly helpful.

As for the donations, I think its at least fair to know where you are going as a corp member and (to a greater extent) how who you are following thinks. I also make no excuses for being a cynic and admit 100% upfront that I joined with some reservations on the goals of the corp as they were explained to me. This is not to say I have anything in particular to complain about toward recon or the decisions made to date. But I've experience first hand how draining, devistating, and demoralizing errors in this process can be, and would rather be an all out bitch; then an idle and complacent drone to watch yet another very well intended organization fall.

Frankly if your all around 6 months from now to point out how much of an annoying ass I can be, I'd consider it more of a win then me going through another 6-7 corps in that period of time. Afterall I'm still here right? My feet haven't forgotten where the door is, and unless someone truely wants to point it out to me I feel content to be Mr. Negativity to prevent a small novel worth of experiences I could point out to all of you, none of which are pleasant. Its just how it is out there. An it seems over time the tricks only get dirtier and more frequent, a dose of skeptism can be very healthy I think at this point.

Recon is right on the money portion however. A good part of this is getting the isk type resources under control, and I'm willing to play a role in this. Above and beyond mere taxes. I'm making an investment, both for myself and for others so that our mutual success is more likely. I don't think its excessive to know more about what I'm investing in, or to have some idea of how/when/where things might happen. Nor do I think its excessive to tie how much I'm willing to invest by how much I understand. Its having confidence in the plan, the people applying it, and the people supporting it; that makes a true corperation a 'team'. An believe me I've spent the larger portion of my entire eve life looking for a real team. If thats part of the plan then IMHO its time to make a playbook and get everyone on the same page. I've experience in the past what following in the dark can mean, I don't intend to relive it.

CCC

small note here I have a short term gola for the POS stuff as far as a reaction chain... its one i have run before with success but its a seriuos pain to start up isk wise as it require 4 lg towers to pull off and fitting for those... thats another reason for a lot of pos isk going out the door... im not 100% sure if i start it with just one pos it will make what it needs to to break even.


Recon